Responsibility and Choice

xactionsspeaklouderx wrote: the man is partially responsible for the child, whether he wanted the woman to have an abortion or not. it isn't his choice to make, as it isn't his body.

so while a man cant force a woman to have his child, a woman can force a man to be a father?
fuckin sexist!

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He pays child support because it's his DNA as much as it is the females.

It's unfair a man can have no say whether a woman has an abortion, but that's not up for this website to decide, and we have to deal with the fact that law is in place. it's not fair, but it's what's happening.

Such a sexist system is in place because of freedom. Holding a woman down and forcing an abortion on her is against democracy, as is forcing her to carry a baby for 9 months when she doesn't want to.

It isn't paying for something against their choice, they were aware of consequences when they chose to have sex. Any male in a democratic society with even an ounce of common sense knows if he has a kid, he pays for the kid in life.

Of course it's not fair for a woman to have a kid against her choice.

Just because a woman is on the pill doesn't mean she can't still get pregnant, both sex partners should know there is always a risk of pregnancy when having sex.

The man should still have to pay for the child, because biologically it's as much his child as it is the mothers. He's aware if he has sex with a girl, she can get pregnant and he should be prepared to deal with that.

my uncle has to pay child support for a child he doesnt want or has ever met.

the mother slept with 6 other men
any of them could have been the father.

they all took the risk, should they all be made to split the cost?

stupidemo wrote: my uncle has to pay child support for a child he doesnt want or has ever met.

the mother slept with 6 other men
any of them could have been the father.

they all took the risk, should they all be made to split the cost?

Not if they didn't father the child
I assume a test has been done that resulted in him being the father
But the other men get off
They shouldn't have to pay for something that has nothing to do with them
Hell I've fucked a girl thats now pregnant and there's no chance I'd ever pay child support
Not my child, not my girlfriend/wife, not my problem

question is what classifies as being a parent?
there are two levels in my opinion

the first is based on biology, which is what the current system is based on.

the second is different, and based on having an active role in the childs life.
for example a father figure

many people say that a father (biological or not) that doesnt take part in the childs life, isnt really a father.

See that is all in your opinion

A father is one who helped "father" a child
I.E. Put his penis in a vagina and impregnated someone

I have a step-father
I may call him dad
But he will always be my step-father

The way I see it is the guy is only emotionally and mentally involved with a woman when she is pregnant men if they choose not to deal with the child they can bail or leave the country and refuse to pay child support etc. However if a woman is going to have a child welll she's pretty much out of luck...she can't really ignore it because it is psychically effecting her and its inside her too. For example I'm pregnant the guy who I was with wanted to be involved but then he goes and gets arrested and is stuck in jail for the limit of 3 years and I'm stuck you know raising the child for three years by myself, finding a financial way to raise it for those 3 years he is not going to be apart of the child's life.

However if I where to go to jail then it doesn't matter I am still responsible for that child's well being all a man can do really is support the women and unless I choose to send it out for adoption or abort it it is part of my responsibility it effects my life not his.

There fore I think women should have the say not the man because next off he doesn't have to go through child birth, the horomonal changes, being pregnant effects everything in a womens life where it really doesn't much leave much of a mark on a guy's life.

It leaves a bigger mark on some guys than women tend to give them credit for

Also to the poster above me, fullstops are really useful, would make it a bit easier to understand your post

How are you saying that it leaves a bigger impact on the man then the women or its even remotely similar is bull shit, no matter how you try to make it a moral issue on sexists and shit it does not effect the man unless he is fully involved and chooses to be if the women is pregnant.

I'm sorry too be a bitch about it but honest to god.

He can do whatever he wants if he drinks excessively, snorts cocaine,the fuck he wants, gets his ass thrown in jail and the most of an impact it leaves on a child is not having a father and all that emotional and psychological bullshit that goes with it.

However if a women goes and drinks excessively and snorts cocaine while pregnant it leaves a lasting imprint on the baby's actual development etc. Not only that but if your pregnant and you do everything in your power to try and make sure the baby is healthy and then it comes out with some health problem you are going to blame yourself. Its physically, emotionally, psychologically and socially draining for the women to be pregnant and then have a child the most for a guy who actually gives a shit and sticks by its the same thing and I applaud them greatly but if the women gets an abortion she has to deal with the choice she made and 'what ifs' and health problems that may occur later on because of that choice.

Personally when I found out I was pregnant I stopped everything, I had to for the sake of the child inside me and my own health but for the guy who made me pregnant he doesn't have to worry about fuck all, except child support. Which he won't be paying for at least 3 years or more because he got arrested for armed robbery.

If you ask me its the least the guy can do if he's not going to be and gets himself thrown in jail because he has to pay a little money to help raise the child he helped create then he should pay for something.

Men should have to pay for child support fully and without question although I know tons of guys who have blown it off and never paid and those women are struggling with her own well being and her child's well being.

SO I think yeah the man should be responsible for paying at least some sort of support since fuck the women gets stuck with everything else. But you are a guy so I don't think you would get it.

When you have a child you give up everything not saying its not worth it. You have to care for that child's basic needs, you have to be emotionally envolved you need to raise them 18 and then some...you need to make sure they have clothes, food, a decent place to live, school (eventually), other things that go along and as the child grows and if that guy is not part of their child's life from the time they come out of the hospital to where they are caring for the child (regardless of being or not being with the mother) then they should absouletly pay for child support.

KittensKill wrote:

xactionsspeaklouderx wrote: the man is partially responsible for the child, whether he wanted the woman to have an abortion or not. it isn't his choice to make, as it isn't his body.

so while a man cant force a woman to have his child, a woman can force a man to be a father?
fuckin sexist!

she's not forcing him, he chose to have sex. unless she raped him, which changes all of this completely.

once his part in it is done, it's out of his hands. it's no longer his body and therefore no longer his choice.

are you saying it's sexist that a woman has the power what to decide to do with her own body?
or is it sexist that a woman isn't stuck to fend for herself and her baby with no help from the one who had a hand in creating that baby?

although i would say a simple, less painful solution for all parties involved is to have sex with people who you love and trust and have already discussed options so you know you're on the same page.

xactionsspeaklouderx wrote:

KittensKill wrote:

xactionsspeaklouderx wrote: the man is partially responsible for the child, whether he wanted the woman to have an abortion or not. it isn't his choice to make, as it isn't his body.

so while a man cant force a woman to have his child, a woman can force a man to be a father?
fuckin sexist!

she's not forcing him, he chose to have sex. unless she raped him, which changes all of this completely.

once his part in it is done, it's out of his hands. it's no longer his body and therefore no longer his choice.

are you saying it's sexist that a woman has the power what to decide to do with her own body?
or is it sexist that a woman isn't stuck to fend for herself and her baby with no help from the one who had a hand in creating that baby?

Agreed.

VenusDoom wrote: He pays child support because it's his DNA as much as it is the females.

Hes nothing more than a sperm doner.
and no one expects a sperm doner to pay for any child they happen to be the biological father of.

VenusDoom wrote: Such a sexist system is in place because of freedom. Holding a woman down and forcing an abortion on her is against democracy, as is forcing her to carry a baby for 9 months when she doesn't want to.

What about the mans freedom?
maybe he wants a child, and it gets aborted?
maybe he doesnt want one, and is forced to support it. how is that any different to forcing a woman to have a child against her will?

VenusDoom wrote: The man should still have to pay for the child, because biologically it's as much his child as it is the mothers. He's aware if he has sex with a girl, she can get pregnant and he should be prepared to deal with that.

yet woman are able to choose to abort? thats what they get told, its their choice.
or the woman can give the child up for adoption.
why cant the guy give the child up for adoption?

stupidemo wrote: my uncle has to pay child support for a child he doesnt want or has ever met.

thats disgustingly unfair.
Its no different to forcing a woman to have a child she doesnt want.

stupidemo wrote: they all took the risk, should they all be made to split the cost?

no.

stupidemo wrote: many people say that a father (biological or not) that doesnt take part in the childs life, isnt really a father.

that i agree with.
hes a sperm doner, nothing more.
if he has no active role in the childs life, he is not "dad" he is simply the biological father, someone who donated their DNA.

xactionsspeaklouderx wrote: once his part in it is done, it's out of his hands. it's no longer his body and therefore no longer his choice.

you mean just like someone who donated their sperm?

xactionsspeaklouderx wrote: are you saying it's sexist that a woman has the power what to decide to do with her own body?
or is it sexist that a woman isn't stuck to fend for herself and her baby with no help from the one who had a hand in creating that baby?

no
im saying its sexist that a woman gets the right to say "no, i dont want a child" but a man has no right to say the same.
the man should have the same rights as a sperm doner, if he does not want a child.

Bigger impact than women give some of them credit for
Not a bigger impact than it would hae on a woman
You really need to L2grammar

the difference is that a sperm doner goes into the situation under the agreement that he will not be responsible for the child created.

by having sex with a woman, he is agreeing to take responsibility for the consequences of that. so unless he has his lawyer sit down with the girl before hand and come to an agreement that he will not be responsible should a child be created, yes he should be responsible