Responsibility and Choice

Some people think that women who have abortions show a lack of responsibility.
But what about a reverse of the situation.
why should a guy have to pay to support a child he doesn't want?
A woman can choose to have an abortion, but a man cant say "no, I don't want a child"
If the man wants to keep the child he can't force the woman to have it, she has the right to choose to abort.
Why is such a sexist system in place?

Should people be forced to pay for things that go against their choice?

And in addition to this, in some countries, a woman can be forced to have a child against her will. is this fair?

Some people would say that if you choose to have sex, you choose to deal with the possible consequences. But its not unheard of for a woman to say shes on the pill, and "accidentally" get pregnant. In such a situation, should the man be forced to provide for the child?

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Its all down to circumstance and choice again Kittens.
The descision of if a woman should have an abortion or not should be a joint one between herself and the father of the child.
A woman should never be forced to have a child, but neither should she be forced to abort.
A man should never be forced to have a child, in the sense of having to pay for and raise it, but he should never be forced to lose a child if the mother does not wish to have it.
If a couple are in a strong, long term relationship, and the woman falls pregnant, it is a joint descision and in my opinion if the woman wants to keep the baby, and they are clearly able to provide for it, the man should stand by this decision.
if however it is one of the many teen pregnancies, I somethimes think it should be left up to the parents of the mother to decide. In most cases like this it is two unprepared people who don't have that good a relationship, and the girls mother will end up looking after the child anyway. If the girl is strongly against abortion, she should consider adoption, or allowing her mother to raise the child if she allows this. On the other hand though the father may wish to raise this child, and therefore he and his family is brought into it.
Its complicated...

TL;DR= it depends on the circumstance, but should be a fair, joint descision from all those it affects imediately.

FairyLightPhenomena wrote: A woman should never be forced to have a child, but neither should she be forced to abort.
A man should never be forced to have a child, in the sense of having to pay for and raise it, but he should never be forced to lose a child if the mother does not wish to have it.

see the contradiction?

KittensKill wrote:

FairyLightPhenomena wrote: A woman should never be forced to have a child, but neither should she be forced to abort.
A man should never be forced to have a child, in the sense of having to pay for and raise it, but he should never be forced to lose a child if the mother does not wish to have it.

see the contradiction?

Yes, I see the contradiction.
If it wasn't pregnancy and a childs life we were discussing, I would say you have to compromise, and meet in the middle, but that isn't exactly possible. This is why I don't believe in children out of wedlock, but then again I don't exactly believe in marriage.
Children should only be had in a strong and stable relationship, where they are wanted and can be cared for properly. It's just getting people to understand that before they get pregnant.

Meh.
This issue is so heavily riddles with contradictions, that it almost cancels itself out.
My take on the subject is, yes, You had sex, you know what sex does.
If you decided to eat something you were allergic to, you know what's gonna happen.
Was it worth it for the time of happiness?
If a woman is on birth control, and it happens anyway, I think it's about the situation.
If she finds out she's pregnant, and has an environment to take care of the child, and her partner is set up to help, it would make sense to have the kid.
If the environment isn't suitable, or her partner doesn't want the kid, and she can't do it alone, it doesn't make sense to have it.

Now, on the flip side of the issue, you get the male persona.
He hasn't got control over whether the baby comes or not after sex.
However, before sex, he does.
The same thing applies.
If you have sex, you know what sex does.
I think it's a cowardly thing to back out of taking care of your own child.
If you didn't want it, you shouldn't have had sex.
Think as if it were times when there wasn't abortion, would you go to the means of killing the baby after it comes out?
Abortion has become a cheap cop out, in my opinion.
It should be used for rape victims, life threatening situations, and other special cases.
It's one thing to not have financial means or to have an unsuitable environment, but seriously, just because your scared, or whatever other reason, it's a cowardly thing to do.
It's like copping out of your fitness test because it looks daunting.
It's all about common sense in the situation.

perhaps i should put it in the first post.
this isnt a debate about abortion.
and its being based on the laws in most western countries
where women can choose to abort but the man has no say
or the woman can choose to have a child, and again the man has no say.

rockitemokid wrote: Think as if it were times when there wasn't abortion, would you go to the means of killing the baby after it comes out?

abortion has been an option for as long as midwifery has been in existence

KittensKill wrote: perhaps i should put it in the first post.
this isnt a debate about abortion.
and its being based on the laws in most western countries
where women can choose to abort but the man has no say
or the woman can choose to have a child, and again the man has no say.

There aren't really many other things you could discuss the subject on.
Divorce, maybe.
Enslavement and Rape might fit into the discussion somewhere, but abortion is just such a perfect candidate for the issue.
I'll have a think and maybe try biting into one of those issues.

one thing im wanting to know is, with so many women going on about womens rights, how can they not see that the rights of their womb can make or break a man? that the current system is extremely unfair, and biased.

KittensKill wrote: one thing im wanting to know is, with so many women going on about womens rights, how can they not see that the rights of their womb can make or break a man? that the current system is extremely unfair, and biased.

It is unfair, and biased, but there isn't that much we can do about it, so we have to work with what we've got. The only way we could change the system is fully replace the government, and possible eradicate most of the earth, but all we'd be doing is replacing them with the exact same type of people.
This is going to be a discussion that runs for pretty much ever, it won't change because not enough people recognise the issues.

KittensKill wrote: Why is such a sexist system in place?

Allowing a woman to have the final say in what happens to her own body is sexist?

Reep your conquinces and step up and be man if you knock her up.


point blank.

even if the girl is on the pill she can still get pregnate.... there is no way to have sex and be 100% certain that the girl wont get pregnate.... so whenever a guy and girl chooses to have sex they choose to risk getting pregnate... i do understand what your saying and yea it is a contradiction

but when a guy decides to have sex he is choosing that if she does get pregnate and has the kid to take responsibility


idk if that makes sense....... but yea

Effy wrote:

KittensKill wrote: Why is such a sexist system in place?

Allowing a woman to have the final say in what happens to her own body is sexist?

no, i dont think thats sexist.
but expecting a man to support a child he doesnt want is sexist. if the roles are reversed, the woman has a choice, but the guy gets no choice.
I dont think men should be forced to support unwanted children

KittensKill wrote:

Effy wrote:

KittensKill wrote: Why is such a sexist system in place?

Allowing a woman to have the final say in what happens to her own body is sexist?

no, i dont think thats sexist.
but expecting a man to support a child he doesnt want is sexist. if the roles are reversed, the woman has a choice, but the guy gets no choice.
I dont think men should be forced to support unwanted children

Running from responsibility is cowardly. Always.

in the end, it is a woman's choice to have a baby or to get an abortion. but she would never have gotten pregnant in the first place if not for the man. so the man is partially responsible for the child, whether he wanted the woman to have an abortion or not. it isn't his choice to make, as it isn't his body.