Most of what you are both debating is covered by the above links, which are not sketchy at all.

You're totally right nexus, it was lazy of me to ignore those links...

I have opened and read the first few of them and as I feared, it's not as cut and dry as they would have you believe, I am not going to pick through every link posted (playing devil's advocate doesn't mean i want to spend hours and hours researching :p) but here is some info on the first few in the list (after those i got sick of making notes)

Study Shows Toxins in Marijuana Smoke

"Dec. 14, 2007 -- New research from Canada shows that some toxins *MAY* be more abundant in marijuana cigarettes than tobacco cigarettes." - So the test was inconclusive, if it was provable they would have said it *DOES*

"The nitrogen-based fertilizer used on the marijuana plants -- which all came from the same batch of Canadian pot plants -- may have affected the results." - That fact alone makes the test worthless, not adequately controlled.


Marijuana Linked to Early Gum Disease

no mention of diet control in this study, too many environmental factors not explored to be anywhere near conclusive.



Are Smoking Pot and Psychosis Linked?

This is good ol' misinformation. The study shows that that pot smokers are more likely to have mental illness. It does not say that the pot causes the mental illness. It is quite believable, in fact, that people with mental illness are more likely to smoke pot. Just as people with mental illness are more likely to engage in a whole host of other "illegal and/or destructive behaviors" as they are generally pushed to the fringes of society.

(quote) (/quote)
Replace ( and ) with [ and ]

Otherwise it *looks* like you're only re-posting those not so much as addressing those.

deepcutsarebest wrote:

Marijuana Linked to Early Gum Disease

no mention of diet control in this study, too many environmental factors not explored to be anywhere near conclusive.

it's the same as tabacco essentially, thus despite diet control, it has the same effect as chewing tabacco and smoking.

Not all studies/research has to be done under certain circumstances unless on a non-broad subject, IE, having to test under a specific condition. Without narrowing it down to diet, since they still got the same results, the data speaks for itself, those with and without good diets have the same negative effect.

deepcutsarebest wrote:

Are Smoking Pot and Psychosis Linked?

This is good ol' misinformation. The study shows that that pot smokers are more likely to have mental illness. It does not say that the pot causes the mental illness. It is quite believable, in fact, that people with mental illness are more likely to smoke pot. Just as people with mental illness are more likely to engage in a whole host of other "illegal and/or destructive behaviors" as they are generally pushed to the fringes of society.

Not really. This is approached as a question, thus does not state that it is pot (as you have said).*

However, people who are in a different aspect/perspective, whether having a mental illness or not (in the negative aspect/perspective of seeing and doing things), are more likely to take up negative behavior than a person in the "social norm".

*I am not backing up the use of pot nor am I backing up the use of pot.

Nexus wrote: (quote) (/quote)
Replace ( and ) with [ and ]

Otherwise it *looks* like you're only re-posting those not so much as addressing those.

deepcutsarebest wrote:

Marijuana Linked to Early Gum Disease

no mention of diet control in this study, too many environmental factors not explored to be anywhere near conclusive.

it's the same as tabacco essentially, thus despite diet control, it has the same effect as chewing tabacco and smoking.

Not all studies/research has to be done under certain circumstances unless on a non-broad subject, IE, having to test under a specific condition. Without narrowing it down to diet, since they still got the same results, the data speaks for itself, those with and without good diets have the same negative effect.

Unless a test rules out every possible environmental/outside factor then it isn't an accurate test, more likely propaganda.

deepcutsarebest wrote:

Nexus wrote: (quote) (/quote)
Replace ( and ) with [ and ]

Otherwise it *looks* like you're only re-posting those not so much as addressing those.

deepcutsarebest wrote:

Marijuana Linked to Early Gum Disease

no mention of diet control in this study, too many environmental factors not explored to be anywhere near conclusive.

it's the same as tabacco essentially, thus despite diet control, it has the same effect as chewing tabacco and smoking.

Not all studies/research has to be done under certain circumstances unless on a non-broad subject, IE, having to test under a specific condition. Without narrowing it down to diet, since they still got the same results, the data speaks for itself, those with and without good diets have the same negative effect.

Unless a test rules out every possible environmental/outside factor then it isn't an accurate test, more likely propaganda.

Then everyone will see it as a "Laboratory" study in which they will say it is all manipulated, thus, try to say the same thing you are saying now.

People act differently and do different things when they know they are in a Laboratory Study, consciously or not.*

Nexus wrote: Then everyone will see it as a "Laboratory" study in which they will say it is all manipulated, thus, try to say the same thing you are saying now.

People act differently and do different things when they know they are in a Laboratory Study, consciously or not.*

Even in high school, it is taught when doing experiments it is better to control as much as you can rather than not control enough and to always counterbalance your study with self criticism stating what factors could/couldn't be controlled and how that affects the credibility of the results.

Lack of control in a study does not make the results more valid, only half complete.

The participants could just as easily lie about diet outside the lab, giving more weight to the argument that this study isn't really usable in a debate as it's based not on scientific fact but some people claiming they eat healthily etc yet having teeth falling out of their head.

deepcutsarebest wrote:

Nexus wrote: Then everyone will see it as a "Laboratory" study in which they will say it is all manipulated, thus, try to say the same thing you are saying now.

People act differently and do different things when they know they are in a Laboratory Study, consciously or not.*

Even in high school, it is taught when doing experiments it is better to control as much as you can rather than not control enough and to always counterbalance your study with self criticism stating what factors could/couldn't be controlled and how that affects the credibility of the results.

Lack of control in a study does not make the results more valid, only half complete.

The participants could just as easily lie about diet outside the lab, giving more weight to the argument that this study isn't really usable in a debate as it's based not on scientific fact but some people claiming they eat healthily etc yet having teeth falling out of their head.

The people are chosen in the first place for the study and generally when entering must be within a certain spectrum before either being studied in environment or laboratory, thus they are already targets. Sometimes they will know what the study is, other times they will not.

they generally do all the kinds of studies to validate results based off of that spectrum and will even do the other spectrums to make more conclusive data.

When you say "within a spectrum" that can be misleading, just because someone is within a height/weight/age range, gives little indication of what is going on with them as a person.

Also, we are ignoring the most important fact here, the study states that the control was done with the participants who smoked marijuana, it doesn't take a genius to note that smoke isn't meant to be in your mouth, if the study had produced those results from people who for example ate it in food as many do then I would concede but as it is, the study is clearly biased and lacked basic planning.
That is a study about smoke in your mouth, not marijuana.

deepcutsarebest wrote: When you say "within a spectrum" that can be misleading, just because someone is within a height/weight/age range, gives little indication of what is going on with them as a person.

Also, we are ignoring the most important fact here, the study states that the control was done with the participants who smoked marijuana, it doesn't take a genius to note that smoke isn't meant to be in your mouth, if the study had produced those results from people who for example ate it in food as many do then I would concede but as it is, the study is clearly biased and lacked basic planning.
That is a study about smoke in your mouth, not marijuana.

I stated that it is essentially the same, as chewing and smoking both cause this problem.

As for biased and lacking basic planning, not really.

Every psychologist knows there are steps into getting a spectrum, of which is the targeted people etc etc.

It's not lacking so much as not posting everything they did to start the study and post-study. So if it lacks anything, it would be everything I have noted in the above posts in which is commonly never released except in certain cases or after similar tests are done, and finally after X amount of time passes by.

Where in that study does it say that chewing and smoking cause the same problem? I can't find it.

deepcutsarebest wrote: Where in that study does it say that chewing and smoking cause the same problem? I can't find it.

It doesn't say it in that study nor did I say it was from that study.

Nexus wrote:
I stated that it is essentially the same, as chewing and smoking both cause this problem.

Where does this fact come from then? I don't recall any study showing that to be true.

deepcutsarebest wrote:

Nexus wrote:
I stated that it is essentially the same, as chewing and smoking both cause this problem.

Where does this fact come from then? I don't recall any study showing that to be true.

It has never been posted on this forum.

Google.

in the words of wikipedia "Citation needed!"

deepcutsarebest wrote: in the words of wikipedia "Citation needed!"

I'm going to be lazy and use the fact that I know people who only chew, only smoke, and only smoke pot who had to stop (as told by the dentist) before they got it.