Meat is good, actually I'm eating a cheeseburger right now, and (this will piss some people off), I buy, raise, and sell steers to go be if you must "slaughtered" Woo, some people are gonna yell at me now, and I don't give a fuck.

I like bacon.

I like veggie bacon.

Venfort wrote: 1 ”Meat is part of a natural diet!”

Appendix argument, likeSnow said. (because Snow is teh awesome and everyone should love her)

2 "Some essential substances you can only find in meat, for example protein and iron."

Percentwise there are more protein in soybeans than in red meat. There are lots of iron in all green vegetables, nuts, beans and cereals.

I'd consider this one valid.

3 ”If everyone stopped eating meat, the world would be overrun with animals.”

We control the amount of animals born. The only chanse of making the world vegetarian is to do it person by person and that takes a while. The "supply" is decreased according to the demand. There will be no mass killing of animals, because everyone will not become vegetarian over night. One person does make a difference. Otherwise it wouldn't be as many vegetarians as it is today. Even a drop of the ocean is a part of the ocean.

That's generally true but I'd have to say that a single person doesn't make a difference. Instead of that animal's body being used to keep you alive it's simply being left to rot and tossed in the garbage. I think that if an animal is already dead then it's body should be at least be treated with respect and by not eating it you're making sure that it died in vain and that it's life meant nothing.

4 ”As long as the animals don't suffer...”

If you ever seen a meat factory you know that the animals suffer their entire lives. There are also nothing called "unnecessary suffering". Just listen to the words. All suffering is unnecessary.

I'd have to disagree. Not all suffering is unnecessary. From suffering come knowledge. My family used to raise chickens and they were treated very well up until they needed to be killed for dinner. Everything dies some day. Though I have to say that the way that animals are treated in these huge companies is disgusting. It really is animal abuse and that should change, however that doesn't mean that the meat industry should be completely shut down, just adjusted for the better.

5 ”You have to burn rainforrests for soy production so you vegetarians can have food!”

Yes. But 80% of the soy produced on earth is for animal fodder. If this wasn't the case there wouldn't be as many soy farmers, hence not as much rainforrest shoveling.

This is pointing fingers and that's all it is.

6 ”But the lions eat meat! Why shouldn't we be allowed to eat meat?”

This is a stupid argument.

7 "What if the vegetables can feel pain?!"

Then it's even MORE important not to eat meat. What do you think the animal fodder is made of? Yeah, vegetables. Vegetarianism is not about stopping all the suffering in the world. It's about minimizing it. You CAN stop hurting animals, so why not do it?

This is full of that holierthanthou BS. There have been several studies showing that plants can feel pain and vegetarians really have no other comeback for it and it's just pathetic and hypocritical. I really don't think that plants feel pain on the same level or in the same way that animals do but really, this is just stupid. It's just passing the buck. I really doubt that anyone who's a vegetarian bothers to think about the pain of plant life, they're too busy acting like they're better than omnivorous people.

8 ”But it tastes good!”

But is it really reasonable that innocent animals is killed for it? Is your comfort REALLY that important that defenceless animals have to die for it? Would you be willing to live a miserable life in pain and torture just so someone else can have a good meal?

Meat is just a common luxury, people have gotten spoiled to having it. Most people can't imagine living without a radio/internet/television let alone something as simple as meat. This imo is a valid argument. Yes, people are really that selfish. I suppose that includes myself since I eat meat as well, however that's not my only reason.

Deuce wrote:
This is a good example of why I generally try to avoid vegetarians and- or vegans: a blunt holier-than-thou attitude. The only thing you'll achieve with such a mentality is more people refusing to join your cause, let alone hear you out. If you want people to convert, why don't you try another type of approach?

For example, a better suited answer for the last question would be something along the lines of: People usually like the seasonings used to add flavor to the meat, not the muscle itself. If you've ever tried eating completely unseasoned meat after a small absence from meat, you'll quickly notice that there is nothing special about it - because the taste is actually very bland and boring. And then go on and develop this answer more; something that I'm too tired to do.

You could've also addressed the issue with people having the belief that a vegan lifestyle is an expensive one.

What all this amounts to, in the end, is a personal choice: you either eat meat or you don't. There should be no questioning of this choice people make, in my opinion.

If you don't listen to arguments you are not rational, you are emotional. No values attached. It's -my- lifestyle to actually take arguments into account when listening to a debate and form my values after fact. I try to avoid hypocrisy as far as I can. It's not my goal to convert everyone to vegetarians. If I could, I would. But since not many people ARE rational, you can't change them whatever you do. It's like a racist and a non-racist trying to convert eachother with logic and reason. You can't. Noone will sway. The racist has to figure out himself that his ideas are bad for everyone involved.

The difference, my dear friend, why vegetarians feel obliged to change the world is because meat eaters everyday sponsor mass murder of innocent and defenceless animals just for the sake of a good meal. There is no way to justify what you are doing. Your tastes are the biggest reason to why we have environmental issues. If it's arrogance, then by God we have earned the right to be arrogant!

Innocent:
If one person cannot make a difference, why is the vegetarian movement so strong today? Every one person is a person more and eventually; meat eating will be out of fashion.

Yes, it's true that knowledge comes from suffering, but what more knowledge can you gain from repedetly torturing generation after generation of cows, sheep, pigs, chickens and fish?
If you're in persuit of knowledge I suggest you try a year as a vegan.

Like I said. Plants can feel pain, ok. How does that justify doubling the pain by first making a cow eating tremendous amounts of plant based fodder and then kill the cow? It just doesn't make any sense.

Venfort wrote: If it's arrogance, then by God we have earned the right to be arrogant!

No, That is what is wrong with people on earth. They think anyone who has a different opinion then them is automatically stupid and inferior.

Do Meat-eaters look down upon vegetarians? No. So Vegetarians should just stop preaching by throwing cow blood at people eating a burger (extreme example).

I respect your opinion, I don't call you an "irrational thinker".

Respect people's opinions. You don't want me to think that every vegetarian is as arrogant and snobby as you? Do you?

GUYS.
there's the EDIT button so you don't have to double and triple post.

SnowXwhite wrote:

Venfort wrote: If it's arrogance, then by God we have earned the right to be arrogant!

No, That is what is wrong with people on earth. They think anyone who has a different opinion then them is automatically stupid and inferior.

Do Meat-eaters look down upon vegetarians? No. So Vegetarians should just stop preaching by throwing cow blood at people eating a burger (extreme example).

I respect your opinion, I don't call you an "irrational thinker".

Respect people's opinions. You don't want me to think that every vegetarian is as arrogant and snobby as you? Do you?

Have you even read what I wrote? You cannot justify your life style! Would you argue that a serial killer has his right to kill others just because he finds his sick pleasure in it? He has his opinion and you have yours or what?
What's wrong with the people on earth is that the majority don't give a shit about anybody or anything else! You call me arrogant and snobby because you KNOW that you cannot justify what you're doing. It's much easier for you if I'm the one being wrong. Listen to the arguments!

Yes, you have no idea how many people take offence just by seeing me ordering vegetarian food in the canteen!
It's a big difference between preaching and informing. My first post wasn't preachy at all, still people took offence. Why? Because you all know we're right. And no, you can't go around and throw cow blood at people, cause that blood comes from somewhere too.

Good. I can't respect yours though. Because your opinion promotes murder and abuse and quite frankly I think humans are supposed to be above that. And no, you don't. But then again you can't. You can call me arrogant (which I believe you did) but you can't call me irrational.

I say it again. I will never respect opinions who promote murder and abuse. You wouldn't either if you hadn't been raised with it. You would probably have made an excellent nazi. Yes I am picking a fight!

Venfort wrote:

SnowXwhite wrote:

Venfort wrote: If it's arrogance, then by God we have earned the right to be arrogant!

No, That is what is wrong with people on earth. They think anyone who has a different opinion then them is automatically stupid and inferior.

Do Meat-eaters look down upon vegetarians? No. So Vegetarians should just stop preaching by throwing cow blood at people eating a burger (extreme example).

I respect your opinion, I don't call you an "irrational thinker".

Respect people's opinions. You don't want me to think that every vegetarian is as arrogant and snobby as you? Do you?

Have you even read what I wrote? You cannot justify your life style! Would you argue that a serial killer has his right to kill others just because he finds his sick pleasure in it? He has his opinion and you have yours or what?
What's wrong with the people on earth is that the majority don't give a shit about anybody or anything else! You call me arrogant and snobby because you KNOW that you cannot justify what you're doing. It's much easier for you if I'm the one being wrong. Listen to the arguments!

Yes, you have no idea how many people take offence just by seeing me ordering vegetarian food in the canteen!
It's a big difference between preaching and informing. My first post wasn't preachy at all, still people took offence. Why? Because you all know we're right. And no, you can't go around and throw cow blood at people, cause that blood comes from somewhere too.

Good. I can't respect yours though. Because your opinion promotes murder and abuse and quite frankly I think humans are supposed to be above that. And no, you don't. But then again you can't. You can call me arrogant (which I believe you did) but you can't call me irrational.

I say it again. I will never respect opinions who promote murder and abuse. You wouldn't either if you hadn't been raised with it. You would probably have made an excellent nazi. Yes I am picking a fight!

You compare killing people with killing animals. There is no comparison. We need to eat meat for nutrients, we don't need to kill people.

And calling me a nazi is immature. And comparing eating meat to the Holocaust is incredibly disrespectful to the people who died in WWII

I don't disrespect your opinions as I've said before, you can think what you want. But when you look down on me and think I'm less then you just because I believe that eating meat is essential to having a healthy diet I do not tolerate it.

I'm not calling you a snob because I don't think your irrational, I'm calling you a snob because you think you're better then everyone else, and that is the definition of snob.

I don't think that you are lesser then me for your opinions. I have contemplated vegetarianism for a lifestyle before. But I don't think it would work because I don't like enough vegetables to have a healthy diet.

Do you see crows and bears going vegetarian? No? They need to eat what they can to survive. And not every person on this earth can afford to eat all vegetarian food.

If the human race stopped eating meat the economy would implode.

Another point I'd like to make; allow me to use your system of extreme examples:

Kid's dying in Africa. Kills wild (whatever animals are in Africa). Eats it. It's the only sufficient meal he's had in days. Are you going to tell him to go to hell?

Don't understand why anyone would argue against vegetarianism. Why can't everyone just keep their various beliefs to themselves?

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand I eat raw meat; y'all are pussies.

SnowXwhite wrote: And not every person on this earth can afford to eat all vegetarian food.

Vegetarian food is cheaper than meat. Just so you know.

Not necessarily. Meat can be cheaper than vegetarian food and vice versa depending on the situation.

Bug wrote: Not necessarily. Meat can be cheaper than vegetarian food and vice versa depending on the situation.

And depending on how much more veggie stuff you need compared to meat to "make up for" the lack of meat.

It depends on the market, if there's a drought in the cabbage capital, then it'll cost more. If there's disease going around the cows then meat will cost more.

My mum was a vegetarian is college for the soul purpose of not having to spend the money on steaks. But it's supply and demand. If you live near a cow farm, meat is less. If you live near a vegetable farm, veggies are less.